Author Topic: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching  (Read 4750 times)

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Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« on: June 09, 2016, 11:09:12 pm »
Where do you stand on the classic car restoration debate? For the purpose of this discussion, I'll use 3 categories.

Restomod: new tube frame chassis, modern 18+ inch  low offset wheels, removed chrome, LS swap, bodywork heavily modified, interior updated with modern gauges and stereo, etc. Most modifications are irreversible. Sometimes only basic shape of body is retained.

Authentic: Retain original body and chassis. Same type of engine as originally installed. Period correct, but not necessarily original everything. Aftermarket wheels, upgraded suspension parts, and ignition upgrades are common. Still retains the look and feel of the car with some updates to improve reliability and driveability.

Number matching: Obsessive pursuit of a restoration award. Factory overspray, original bolt markings, paint markings as used by assembly plant, tags on radio as delivered to dealership. A muse for FOGs suffering with obsessive compulsive disorder. Owner obsessed with the value of car, usually a trailer queen.

I'm in the middle, as you might guess. There are enough museum pieces out there, so I'd rather have a car to drive.

I still, however, like to keep a period look to old cars. Just look at all of the street rods built in the 80s and 90s. They look like shit now. I also like to retain the engineering of the car. A C4 suspension on a C2 is objectively better, but you can no longer appreciate the innovative independent rear suspension championed by Zora Arkus Duntov

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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2016, 11:21:27 pm »
Of those choices I like authentic.
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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2016, 06:11:35 am »
I like all three for different reasons! I love the Numbers Matching cars and believe ONLY those should be restored to original Factory specs! Resto mods are cool also! I think that choice is great for cars that might not have been performance models from the start or were such basket cases that it makes no sense to restore to factory specs! But for me I would also select Authentic if I had a NON Numbers Matching car! Nice wheels and Upgraded fueling (even whole engines) and suspension pieces.
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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2016, 06:25:10 am »
I'm somewhere between authentic and restomod. I like keeping the chrome bumpers and original gauges. Bodywork should be cleaned up a little, but shaving door handles and adding power windows adds a lot of complexities and potential problems. I like to improve the performance with chassis/powertrain upgrades and keeping the body fairly original looking, just cleaned up and perfected. The El Camino would have gotten an LS swap this month if it didn't require a new transmission and stuff.
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Offline MrH

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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2016, 01:47:14 pm »
Resto-mod for me.

Friend's dad has a numbers matching 1970 challenger.  It's an awesome car.  All original chrome and glass, but he actually drives it.  He could replace all the chrome with pristine pieces, but he likes that it's all original.

As long as the car gets driven and isn't just a Cars and Coffee trophy, I like it.
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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2016, 02:03:15 pm »
Depends on the car. A super rare car? No mods, it should be preserved. A less rare car? Whatever floats your boat. Like this Rambler I want.  $3200 now.  ;) A 195 cubic inch 6- banger, 3-speed ? Sure, whatever. My guess is the millennials can't even drive it.   
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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2016, 02:20:51 pm »
I like all three.  Depends on the car, too.  As someone else mentioned, something ultra-rare should be a numbers matching example.  I also can appreciate those who maintain numbers matching classics of not so rare cars.  Takes a lot of effort and preserves the history. 

That said, I have no gripes with someone who has a classic that is a "driver" that maybe ends up doing some convenience upgrades.  Maybe better carbs, modern wheels and tires.  I'm cool with that.  My grandfather bought a '48 Continental that the previous owner had yanked the original, and troublesome, V12 out of and swapped in the V8 and automatic transmission from a 70s Torino.  The rest of the car is original, albeit a little rough in places if you get up close.  Gramps likes Fords and Lincolns from that era and wanted something he could drive around town or to church on a nice summer day and not worry about stone chips or door dings or whatever else.  More reliable (and easier to maintain) powertrain was an added bonus.  For what he wanted, it's perfect.  He's also got an all-original, pristine '38 Zephyr and a show-quality '40 Ford, but doesn't typically bring those out much except to take them to shows or club meets because they're so nice.  That said, he does drive them to said events rather than trailer them.

And I love a good resto-mod.  Old car looks with modern running gear?  Best of all worlds.  Hate to see it done to something truly rare like a Hemi Cuda, but a 60s or 70s Mustang or Camaro with modern powerplants, suspension, and brakes?  Love it.
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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2016, 03:09:08 pm »
Restoration and modifications depend completely on the car. It's rarity, type, purpose, condition, available funds, etc. What I don't like are cookie-cutter modifications.
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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2016, 03:53:14 pm »
Restoration with all parts original to the car or OEM or quality reproduction parts. 

That said I'd love to restore a 1966 Pontiac 2+2 convertible but install a modern GM 350 and 6 speed manual.  About 350 HP would be about right. 

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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2016, 11:30:00 pm »
I like all three. A well-done car is a well-done car.  I can appreciate a resto-mod, rat rod, authentic, or numbers matching all the same.  I think a full numbers matching car in virtually mint condition is often the most impressive of the options, but they all have their place.

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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2016, 07:05:35 am »
It really really depends. I'm mostly in the middle though. If I want a new car I get a new car. And old cars I like are meant to be driven. So something that's quasi original is best. I'm not crazy about anything from before the 80s anyway, so stuff like tube chassis etc isn't relevant to my interests.
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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2016, 07:33:12 am »
Numbers matching would make me feel guilty about driving it.  Authentic sounds right up my alley.  I like the upgrades to reliability and performance and handling, but without losing the feel of the original car, which is often what people are after.  To go old is to give up a lot, but once you excise shit from new cars I don't want, like complicated infotainment systems, I think authentic is what you're left with. 
« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 07:35:12 am by Raza »
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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2016, 09:42:18 am »
I don't care for restomods. To me it's especially sad when it happens to a car in great shape that isn't far from "numbers matching". If you're starting from a complete basket case then do whatever, but creating a restomod car from a base that was in excellent shape is a shame in my opinion. That, and restomods are just so... derivative. They're meant to express the owner's individuality but it's like that adage "you're unique, just like everyone else". 

"Authentic" appeals to me most.

Offline GoCougs

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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2016, 11:48:56 am »
My first choice is authentic light (most everything factory stock within reason, save for tires and repairs, but not super anal about "numbers matching"). Now that I'm into collecting classic model trains and firearms, I have a strong appreciation for how things used to be done.

The second choice is restomod, like , probably one of the best restomods ever. I am not a fan of restomods that look modified - all stock appearing for me. I'd opt for a 2nd gen Charger w/modern Challenger running gear, or an early 2nd gen Camaro or C2 Corvette with modern Camaro running gear.

I have no interest in the numbers match thing. Sure it's good others do that, but it's fraught with too much anxiety and time. Just not worth it to me.

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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2016, 12:48:04 pm »
As others may have mentioned...if a classic has all its original pieces, it would be a shame not to restore it to authentic numbers matching. Refurbish as best as can be and make it drivable and drive it...carefully. It can only be original until it's not.

Otherwise, a restomod is nice, if it already has different pieces.  Nothing crazy, just restored to best as can be with modern safety features and a thumping V8.  I'd prefer a '50s model with lots of chrome and all original looking dash and steering wheel. 
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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2016, 04:28:34 pm »
There's a place for all 3, but I plan on keeping the S2000 for my whole life and it'll be authentic but not numbers matching. It'll also be kept bone stock.

True driver's cars have been on the decline ever since they started making cars in which the driver no longer had to advance the ignition timing manually on the fly.  It's been a downhill slide of ever decreasing driver involvement and control ever since.

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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2016, 05:06:14 pm »
This is perfection

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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2016, 05:14:19 pm »
I kinda like this one...

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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2016, 05:16:46 pm »
I kinda like this one...



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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2016, 05:31:58 pm »
I really like this Mustang restomod (despite the Chevy powerplant under hood)



Or this Camaro (built for Pro Street)

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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2016, 08:50:56 pm »
There's a place for all 3, but I plan on keeping the S2000 for my whole life and it'll be authentic but not numbers matching. It'll also be kept bone stock.
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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2016, 01:44:25 am »
I really like this Mustang restomod (despite the Chevy powerplant under hood)



Or this Camaro (built for Pro Street)



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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2016, 11:38:51 am »
Isn't it your dad's car?
Minor details :lol:

I remember thinking about how to swap the V6 out of my dad's Maxima into my mom's Quest over night since that's what I had access to. "They would never know the difference" :lol:
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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2016, 11:40:30 am »
Minor details :lol:

I remember thinking about how to swap the V6 out of my dad's Maxima into my mom's Quest over night since that's what I had access to. "They would never know the difference" :lol:

I think he plans on buying it from pops when he's earning them physician ducats.
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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2016, 07:45:48 pm »
THey've known how to make cars fast for decades. What's new is we now know how to make them stop and go round corners. So for a driver, I'd be in the middle & choose authentic, with decent suspension, tires & brakes. Has enough of the mystique of an old car that's quick, but is less likely to careen into things it shouldn't.
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Offline Raza

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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2016, 09:04:53 pm »
So, what would a 1971 Corvette convertible with modern suspension, brakes, and tires with an LSx and 6MT be considered?

Because this is awesome:


But I don't know what kind of power those engines are making under today's standards.  I'd assume not a lot. 
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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2016, 10:20:37 pm »
So, what would a 1971 Corvette convertible with modern suspension, brakes, and tires with an LSx and 6MT be considered?

Because this is awesome:


But I don't know what kind of power those engines are making under today's standards.  I'd assume not a lot. 

That would be pro touring.
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Offline CaminoRacer

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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2016, 06:33:59 am »
That would be pro touring.

Pro touring kind of has 2 sub categories. You've got the cars with the upgraded suspension and drivetrain as well as modern aero, painted bumpers, custom interior, etc. Then you've got the cars that have all the performance upgrades but keep it fairly original-ish looking on the outside. I'm guessing that's what Raza would want.

A 1971 LT1 Corvette with a 350 cubic inch small block probably made ~275 net HP. They were rated at 330 gross HP IIRC. Swapping to a moderately built LS3 and a T56 6 speed is an obvious choice.
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Offline Raza

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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2016, 02:33:51 pm »
That would be pro touring.

Ah. 

So many terms.  I'm just keeping my Z4. 
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Re: Restomod vs Authentic vs Numbers Matching
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2016, 02:34:50 pm »
Pro touring kind of has 2 sub categories. You've got the cars with the upgraded suspension and drivetrain as well as modern aero, painted bumpers, custom interior, etc. Then you've got the cars that have all the performance upgrades but keep it fairly original-ish looking on the outside. I'm guessing that's what Raza would want.

A 1971 LT1 Corvette with a 350 cubic inch small block probably made ~275 net HP. They were rated at 330 gross HP IIRC. Swapping to a moderately built LS3 and a T56 6 speed is an obvious choice.

Yeah, looking generally original, but with modern sized wheels (probably no bigger than 18", 17" even if they look good in the wells).
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